0:00
Just kind of came together a bit more naturally, rather than one point that you were just going, oh yeah, that's me. Now I'm like,
0:06
it wasn't like the heavens opened up and it was
like, blah, but when we, when I was working with Marie, we used to go to the Cairo Europe, which we studied a few times, yes, so that that really opened your eyes then, and you were able to speak to loads of chiropractors that actually practice that way. And, you know, it can work, and it obviously works really well, but, you know, whenever things, you're a bit afraid of changing things. And so that was lovely. That was probably one of the 10 points actually that changed.Yeah.
Hello and welcome. I'm Dr Don MacDonald, and it's my pleasure to bring you a podcast dedicated to the chiropractors who are not just about treating pain, but about making a profound impact on the nervous systems of their practice members. Let's embark on this journey of enhancing our practices, our communities and the lives of the people we touch one nervous system at a time. Thank you for joining me on the informed chiropractor. Let's get started. Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of the informed chiropractor. This is Dr Don MacDonald, your host, and today I'm heading to Northern Ireland to interview our next guest. We've met her. I think it's been probably about three or four years that we've known her, I I'm pretty sure. And she's been to quite a few of our events when we've been over in England, UK, and we're in in Dublin, and she's also in our informed chiropractic group. She loves looking after kids. She graduated from the wealth Institute of chiropractic in 2008 and opened her practice. She loves looking after animals, dogs and horses, which those guys are. I'm scared of because, because I'm a big guy, I'm usually scared of anything bigger than me. So good job on adjusting horses. But I do love looking after dogs after we were looking after our dog, lux for for many years, before he just recently passed. So it gives me great pleasure to welcome Dr EmIr lervy to our podcast. Welcome. Hi. So how I know you went to Welsh chirotic or Institute of chiropractic, and did you grew up in Ireland? Is that? Is that where you grew up?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where I work now is about five miles from where I grew up. So, well, that's
so it's all close. It's all you're all close to where you where you grew up. So, yeah, what, what kind of interested you in chiropractic in the very first place?
2:28
Well, we, I grew up in chiropractic, so my mom and dad eventually, then saw a chiropractor from when I was a child, so I was kind of always in it. And for years, didn't really understand why I went. We just all went, like we left the dentist, you know, and only whenever I started picking my subjects and things at school, I thought I always wanted to be a nurse. One was a nurse, and then briefly wanted to be a vet, and then decided I didn't want to work outside. And at the time we were just, every time we went up, I was putting the chiropractor that we saw, you know, why? What's happening and why? What are you doing? You know, just got more interested in it and that it went from there really. So I just saw the difference it made with mom at the time, had really bad sciatica, I suppose it was, but she was a nurse, and had to give up work because of it, and there was, like, three young kids at home. And so it changed her life for the better. And as she said, she never looked back from that minute that she went first, you know, that that she went and saw the improvements and didn't have to take any drugs or, you know, go to surgery or anything like that. And finally, the reason we all started getting adjusted. My brother had a really bad birth and never slept. So he was about two at this point, whenever mum was going to the chiropractor, and he just said, look, take him in for a check. The worst that can happen is nothing changes, you know, just see what can happen. And at the time, mom just hadn't even thought of it, you know, he just did. He was just a baby that didn't sleep, but she just had to get on with it. And then he got adjusted and he slept. So the rest of us were booked in, and we went from there. So it was a lovely way around. But I always liked the idea of being able to help people when I was younger. I didn't know how that was going to go, but that came round eventually, that that's, that's where I ended up, and honestly couldn't think of doing anything else. Now, you know, really, yeah, what's your question?
4:19
You enjoy it, right? So it's just nice, yeah, like, our purpose. So it's kind of like, it's like, kind of what we do. I always laugh, because when I, when we travel to teach seminars, and my, all my practice members are like, do you ever just go away for fun? And I'm like, well, it is fun. Like this, this profession is fun. This is this, is I, what I do for fun? So when, so, like, you kind of come right out of high school. And then did you decide, okay, I'm for sure, going to chiropractic school right away, or was it, yeah, it was right away. Oh,
4:47
yeah, you from, yeah, earlier than that, that that was the path, yeah, straight. We go straight from school and go straight into university. So, yeah, straight.
4:55
So how did, how did you pick your the Welsh Institute of chiropractic. How did you pick that?
5:04
Because only here at the time, there was only a private university in Bournemouth and the Welsh Institute of chiropractic was the UCAS one, you know that like government one. So that's the only reason I'm out there twice. We couldn't, like, we didn't have the funds to go to the private university. So, yeah, we went there. So it was great. There's quite a few different ones now in the UK, but, yeah, that's, and that's close enough. Well, there's not an Ireland yet, but that was the closest we could go.
5:32
That wasthe closest you could go. So, so as far as, like, kind of the spectrum of chiropractic on the, you know, kind of more of the mechanistic, pain based side, all the way to the more the vitalistic, like, help you optimize function side. What was your knowledge going into school on that range?
5:47
I would have said I was very vitalistic going into university, and then forgot it for a couple of years and then relearned it when I came out. So mom then, whenever she she gave up nursing and retrained as a complimentary therapist. So growing up, even without chiropractic, everything was, you know, with all about holism and trying to correct yourself, and, you know, all of that. So we had that going before I went to university. But then, whenever you're there, you're trying to learn everything, and you're trying to learn, you know, all in that today, and the physiology is very hard to stay vitalistic at that point, yeah, and I just relearned it again when I came out. Yeah,
6:23
now, when you relearned it, did it take a while? Like so when you graduated, did you? Did you open your practice right away?
6:30
It probably took me a few years? Well, I went to work for somebody else in Cardiff. So we stayed in Wales for a few years, and then we had, or we sun, and that's what provoked us to come back to Ireland again. So we came back here. But, yeah, it was very mechanistic for a few years, just because it's in your head, isn't it, you're going, right? I have to check all these things, and that's this. We have to make a diagnosis, and this is how we treat it. And, you know, yeah, and then you get out of that again, yeah.
6:58
So, so when you move back to Ireland? Did you open your current place? Like did you open from scratch?
7:05
Yes, so not where we are at the minute, but I opened in mum's place. She has a lovely place by her house. That was our old shed. You know that she has her complimentary therapy then? So I worked from there for a few years, and then worked with Dr Marie McElhenney and Derry for a few years as well. So yeah, I was kind of working there and home at the same time. And then made the decision in 2019 to just go and go for myself, you know. And then lockdown happened, and the whole place went crazy. And then we opened here. It was lovely again. There was a wee bump there in the middle, but no, it's it's been brilliant since we've moved down here and flourished, which is great,
7:47
So now, when you were in those first couple years of practice, and then you're kind of in that mechanistic mindset, was there anything that kind of helped to trigger you to kind of move a little bit more to that realistic or optimized function? Or was it just that you remember it in practice? You remember how it used to be?
8:03
Yeah, I think I was just, I was obsessed with learning stuff when I came out of university, so I found it really hard to just come out and then not do nothing like I always felt like had to be reading something or listen to loads of podcasts. We've been listening to your yourself and brandy for years before we did any of the courses. And I think it was more reading about that at my the chiropractor that we went and I still see now, Dr Kevin Bradman told me to read the green book. So he gave me a few of the Green books to read, and he said, Look, just read these. And it all makes sense. They are like, they're great, but they're great, but they're just so hard to read. And I was like, Oh, these are sad, but it was just all of that kind of came together, yeah, and then yeah, I think it just kind of came together a bit more naturally, rather than one point that you were just going, oh yeah, that's me. Now, I'm I'm
8:56
like, it wasn't like the heavens opened up and it was like,
9:00
No, No. But when we, when I was working with Marie, we used to go to the Cairo Europe, which we thought about a few times, yes, so that that really opened your eyes then, and you were able to speak to loads of chiropractors that actually practice that way. And, you know, it can work, and it obviously works really well. But, you know, whenever things different, you're a bit afraid of changing things. And so that was lovely. That was probably one of the 10 points actually, that changed that, yeah, yeah. Now
9:29
I was just, like I said, just before, I was just double checking your website, and then I remember that you see animals too. So horses and dogs. How did that? How did that come to be,
9:40
well, this is why I was giggling about the vet part, because I love animals, but always was going to do it, but I thought, Okay, I'll just work for a while. First, you know, and then the course came up again, and it was over in England, we did that. It's not a long course. But it's quite intense, as I'm learning the anatomy, but obviously a bit different from humans, you know, but it's similar, but it's different, and it's learning all the different moods and things like that, and but it's really fun. It's harder, I suppose, physically to adjust. Dogs are fine. Horses are harder physically to adjust, because you need just bit more, even to lift legs and things like that, yeah. But when you're talking about the polyvagal theory, animals get it that you adjust them, and they yawn and stretch and lie down and sleep, and you're going, well, humans did that. This would make you know, this would work really, really well. So the Yeah, the animals are really fun. It's just a bit trickier than humans, because you're not in your clinic as such. You know, the dog the dogs come to the clinic, but horses you go out to. So it takes a wee bit more time, and, you know, bit more organization, but it is really fun.
10:49
So when you organize it in your schedule, is there like a certain days that you see animals, or do you kind of mix it? So how does your schedule work, as far as in clinic, with your people and
11:00
then your animals? I changed it recently to I now work three days humans in the clinic, and then I work the Thursday of Animal Day. And then the Friday is my out day alcohol at work, there's a few places like, oh, like, I go to local school and see all the teachers. That's a whole day a month. And, you know, so have a couple of those scheduled in as well. So the the Thursdays are normally Animal Day. Well, let's go.
11:23
So on a Fridays, you actually go out and go to a school and adjust, adjust the teachers.
11:28
Yes, there's a wee school, a special school near us that I run. We had a few people came to us as clients or as patients. And the lady was, like, jokingly saying, like, there's so many of us coming now you could nearly come to us. I'm like, Well, I can, you know, if you want me to, we can. So they have because it's, it's not a mainstream school. They have a wee therapy room, so they do therapy for the kids. I haven't seen any of the kids yet, but the teacher's about 50 teachers there, so once a month I go up to them, and they don't all come every time, but a good majority of them come on with a good, fun day of adjusting, and then go home again. What's up? Like, it's a nice feedback. It's such
12:04
a good idea, though, to be able to just go out to them, because they're all going to see you anyway. You might as well. You might as well just be there, right? So, yeah, awesome. Now, talking a little bit about the polyvagal theory, you've kind of been in our group and gone to a couple of our technique seminars, and I was just curious, what are some of the things that you've kind of taken from the polyvagal theory that have, you know? Because, like a lot of I find with a lot of chiropractors, one is personally like understanding yourself and how yourself runs and then, and then, also, then, and then, also practice, and then linking it through chiropractic principles. So what? What are some of the things that you've kind of taken from from those learnings.
12:41
Well, the it's changed because we, we've done both with you now. So we did the original one, or the one in Dublin and then in Windsor. So I kind of took different things from both, if that makes sense. So I love, I've always loved the idea of the, you know, we used to call it like the fight or flight versus the rest and repair. And I've, that's how I've always talked about chiropractic, rather than, you know, this joint is out of place, or that kind of thing, even when we were more mechanistic at the start. But after the first one, I find the language better so I could explain to people better what was happening, rather than, you know, we're not trying to just take you out of fight or flight. We want you just to be more resilient. More resilient and able to, you know, work with the environment, because the stress is there, and we're going to have to, you know, that's not going to go away, so we have to figure out how to work with it. And obviously, some of the techniques that we learned on that first one was fab as well. I think I just came away from the first one with so much information in my brain going I don't know to do in a good way, you know? So it took me a couple of weeks to process the different things, yes, but I suppose the second one I love the the viscera, diaphragm, viscera stuff, which I was kind of doing a little bit, but with no protocol, you know what? So I always check the diaphragm, and I would check the like, I love ribs and first rib, because I think nearly everyone that can are tight there, you know, whether it's working at the computer or stress or so, a lot of the anterior rib and shoulder stuff I love, you know, like the just the not even the adjusting, just the gentle stretch and release things and the visceral stuff, you Know. So that's really cool. And then the cranial and occiput stuff that we learned on the first one, and was fab as well, because I we were taught how to adjust the octopus. This is going to sound on a podcast for chiropractors. So I've always adjusted the net. You know, cervicals activated the occiput because I never felt like I could adjust it properly. And then, on the first one in Dublin, you showed us, you know, the different just lines of drive. And I think this makes sense. Why didn't no one else show us like this before, you know? And it was able, I was able to do it without annoying the person too much. So that was lovely. And then obviously, in Dublin, their last was that. We had a good old the pelvis and seeing how to assess the pelvis properly in, uh, males and females, to know how to adjust it, which is great, you know. And because we have a lot of, like, just manual workers. So I see a lot of hip a lot of shoulder stuff as well as spinal stuff, you know. So it's lovely to be able to release the hips and the knees and be able to stretch that out as well.
15:20
And I'll say this would be kind of a side joke, because we'll know this, and we won't have to say exactly what Brandi said, but we're in Windsor, and we're talking about the protected pelvis. And so we we just had some female chiropractors might feel uncomfortable working in around the hip flexor the pubic bone, the like the femur head. And so brandy had yelled for to get a male to be on the table so that we could just the females could practice anyway. Actually, you'd probably work good the opposite way too, if we're working on anterior ribs for men to practice on female carburetors, so that you just know how to be like certain, explain what you're doing, and then just be a little bit more comfortable and confident going in there, because if you're because if you're if you explain everything that you're going to do, explain why you're doing it, go in just confidently and do it, and then just get out, and then they feel the difference afterwards, you're going to be fine.
16:11
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
16:15
Sometimes you just make too much of an issue of things, I suppose. Yeah,
16:19
yeah, yeah, totally. That's funny. And so And personally,
did you like just understanding some of the things with the states in the polyvagal theory has that helped you at all, like, kind of understand even yourself with stress, or when you are seeing different people come in in different states? Oh, yeah,
16:38
yeah. A lot of us, we don't realize ourselves what we're holding until you get, you know, until you go to Courses and find different things. And so it's helped me recognize when I am getting overwhelmed, I will call it, rather than stress. So I get to a point where I'm getting a little bit overwhelmed, and then if I don't sort something, whether that's an adjustment or for me, sometimes it's just getting outside and getting out in the water or something like that. Will, you know, will that bring me down as well? Then symptoms appear after that. So I then I can confidently say to people, this happens me too. This is how I do it, you know. This is it. Just keep a wee eye out for these symptoms or not. Symptoms even signs that your body is getting overwhelmed. And every time people are like, Oh yeah, I know the shoulder thing. You know, they laugh and go, I'll give you my shoulders up my ears. And I'm like, well, that's when it's been there for a while. Let's think about things that happened before that. I'm like, do you ever get like, shouty at the kids or people and, like, people eating beside you annoy you? And I'm like, That's it. That's it. So it's not having those wee things where you can say to people, Look, this is your body getting a little bit overwhelmed. Do the you know, not necessarily do these things, but they're getting adjusted anyway. You know, they're coming right? Most people that come to see me are quite good at their regular upkeep afterwards. So it's fighting weak points throughout the day that they can take their, you know, their body back into that calm state again. And sometimes it's just having a cup of warm tea that you're appreciating. You have warranty, you know, just for a minute by themselves. Because people think here they have to go to a retreat for the day, or, you know, they have to do all these big things, and it doesn't have to be so it's teaching them that it's okay to be stressed as long as they don't sit on it all the time, you know, just come out of it for a little bit, and then you're more resilient to go and do your, you know, do whatever it is you have to do after that. So it's been nice to see different patterns, I suppose, in people
18:25
100% Yeah, because I always say, too this, it's that regulation dysregulation, and it because the world's crazy, especially, you know, post COVID And like politically and around the world, there's so much things to stress about it, telling people you're never not going to be stressed or dysregulated is unrealistic, but it's about how quickly, like that resilience is, how quickly we get back into a regulated state. So I always like to ask this question. Now you've been in practice for a while. Is there any words of advice you'd like to give your younger self, like, say, go back to when you're a chiropractic school or in that first year of practice, is there anything that you would, you'd give as as advice
19:08
to my younger self? Yes, I'd probably say that it actually like it'll all work eventually. You know, you know, when you get out first and you just think, am I even doing the right thing? Or is people going to listen? Or, you know, and just have a bit, probably have a bit more confidence in myself and say, you know, where you can confidently say to people, I know this is going to work. It's worked all. It's worked for everybody else. It will work for you too, you know, and probably relax more and not get as stressed, really trying to learn everything and read about everything, and, you know, all of that. At the start, I thought I'd, you know, if I, if I study more and do more courses and do more things that will, you know, I don't know, make it better, you know? So it is probably just having more confidence and just have a wee relax and have more fun doing things outside of chiropractic as well. So you can enjoy being in work and doing chiropractic more, you know? So that would probably my main
20:04
tips, that's good, like, It's true though. It's like trying to keep it sustainable, right? Because, like, long term in practice, you still want to keep a little bit of a balance. I do find, too a lot of people, especially chiropractors, want to, like, not implement anything new until they've learned every single thing about it, and then that it actually never happens, that you'll ever learn everything about it. That's the problem about knowledge. It's like a black hole, right? The more you learn, the more you know you don't know. So applied knowledge is the best, right? Applying it and then seeing how it works through your life, and then getting feedback and tweaking it and adjusting it.
20:37
I'm not being afraid to try it either. I think that's what happened at this. Just say, you want to learn everything go well, I'll make sure I'm perfect at this before I try it on anybody. And then say you never do it. So it's just trying wee bits and saying, Oh, that actually works. So that works. So that works for that kind of person, and not that person you know on
20:55
well. And I think, I think that's one of the things I really enjoy about, like, kind of lace lacing that polyvagal theory through chiropractic principles is that if you know that base neurological safety is what our target is, just like in the Green Books, would be ease, like they say, ease in the in the nervous system, that gives you a lot of grace to be creative and try new things. Because if you have that at the top of your mind, you're usually always going to be okay. Like, if you're always trying to create safety in the in the nervous system, or you're always trying to create ease in the physiology, or put safety just in general, when you're having interactions with your practice numbers, like, you really can't go wrong, right? So that's, that's kind of a that's a nice principle to give you permission to be able to try a few things before you get a PhD and everything. Now, we have, you know, we have chiropractors on their way to work or at the gym. I always like to ask you, what kind of words of wisdom would you like to share with the listeners today, or things that inspire you when you're working out or listen to podcasts or going to work.
22:00
Yeah, what I love doing is just cliche as this sounds. With chiropractic is about being in present time, you know, just being outside and listening to the birds or at the minute, we've got glorious weather in Ireland, which doesn't normally happen in March, but we've had sunshine, and the daffodils are out and the birds are singing again, you know, so my words of wisdom is probably just get out there and embrace nature a little bit. And, you know, just be for a minute. I'm trying not get out of your head for a minute. Yeah, be for a minute.
22:34
Great. Just be present well. And again, that's the whole goal with being present in your body, being present with your environment, because there's always no stress in the in the in the present time moment. So I think there's a reason that is one of the principles and that everyone talks about in chiropractic, is because whether you're in your life, or whether you're adjusting someone, whether you're in a relationship, spending time with someone you love like that's a pretty important thing, because the worst thing we can be, is always being in our head where we're kind of like drifting off in the in the clouds and not being present to the ever changing environment. So So thank you very much for taking the time away from your beautiful sunny days. We're not quite nice yet outside. It snowed last night, but we're just, I think we're at plus one, which Celsius today, so it's, it's tolerable, but we're still we have a ways to go before spring comes.
23:25
Yeah, I'd say, or will. It'll probably snow tomorrow. You never know here. Yes,
23:32
totally. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the podcast and everyone else listening. Hope you guys are all doing wonderful. Got some good points, little inspiration from from our episode today, just an announcement, we are coming to Amsterdam the first weekend of September. We'll be sharing some information on what event we're going to be putting on there and how you can attend, but until the next time, have a wonderful day and we'll see you again. And that brings us to the end of another episode of the informed chiropractor, I want to thank you for joining us today and being an important part of this community dedicated to advancing chiropractic care through the insights of neurology and the polyvagal theory. As we close today's episode, remember that each one of us has the power to make a significant impact on the health and well being of our practice members. It's through our continuous learning, application and sharing of knowledge that we can truly elevate the practice of chiropractic and enhance the lives of those that we serve before we part ways. I encourage you to connect with us online, visit our website and follow us on social media to stay updated. Our website is www dot theinform chiropractor.com, and if you found value in today's episode, please share it with a colleague or a friend who might benefit as well. Your support helps us reach and inspire more chiropractors to make a greater impact on their communities. It's been a pleasure to be with you today on the informed chiropractor and until next. Time, Dr. Don........
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