0:00
Compared to, you know, adjusting an adult, you see changes really, really quickly with a baby. So that was very eye opening. And I guess that's what drove me to then go and do the extra pediatric training, was because I was like, Okay, this is really what I want to do now. And you, I don't know, you just feel so great knowing that you've helped a little baby and that you've, you know, adults, you're often cleaning up the mess of what's happened over the years, whereas if you can help a little baby a lot like, you know, early days, then you know you're creating a great change in their trajectory of life. I guess you could say, Yeah,
0:38
Hello and welcome. I'm Dr Don McDonald, and it's my pleasure to bring you a podcast dedicated to the chiropractors who are not just about treating pain, but about making a profound impact on the nervous systems of their practice members. Let's embark on this journey of enhancing our practices, our communities and the lives of the people we touch one nervous system at a time. Thank you for joining me on the informed chiropractor. Let's get started. Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of the informed chiropractor, Miss Dr Don Macdonald, host. And today I'm going back to Australia. I've been zigzagging all over the world, and I'm loving it. And so I get to see a young chiropractor who's just a young whipper snapper in practice. And I always like to get kind of the perspectives of people who've been in practice for a practice for a long time, like me and and the young whippersnappers too. So I'm going to Gladstone Queensland. It's just a it's an hour time difference from Sydney, Australia, and she'll explain where it is, but it's kind of a little bit remote ish of an area. And she's just a graduate of Macquarie University in Sydney, and she joined this practice in 2020 and her name is Dr Kate Finlayson. Welcome to the podcast. Hi. I also got to meet her for the very first time at our seminar in Sydney last year. We did the level one McDonald safety corridor and that that team polyvagal event, and we had some good chats over the weekend. As we like to have good social time along with that. And since then, she joined the informed chiropractor, and we've been chatting back and forth about using some polyvagal lens stuff on some difficult practice members. So we'll probably talk a little bit about that as well, which has been, just been pretty helpful. So welcome to the podcast. Thank you. This is good. So tell us a little bit about Gladstone, because it is kind of a little bit of a remote place, isn't it? Yeah, well,
2:23
we're on the coast. It's central Queensland. So Queensland is huge. We've still got, like, a whole, I think, 12 hours until we get to Cairns, but we're six hours north of Brisbane, but we're on the coast, so that always makes it nice. Yes. And again,
2:40
that like, I was just looking through your bio and stuff, and you like, you like the country, and you like camping, and you like being on the beach. And it sounds like perfect for you, yeah.
2:49
Well, I grew up in a regional town in New South Wales, so used to being in a smaller town,
2:54
yeah. So how did you become a chiropractor? How did you find out about this profession?
2:59
So I don't have some crazy inspirational story, but the way I essentially came to being a chiropractor was I always knew I wanted to help people. I left school and I went to uni and studied nursing and realized it wasn't for me. I'd never seen a chiropractor before. I was seeing an osteopath at the time, and I thought that was pretty cool, the changes I'd seen, and I kind of watched chiropractic videos on YouTube and stuff. And I was like, that's pretty cool. I think I want to go down this path. And that's essentially how I kind of got into it. And went to an orientation day, and, yeah, got into chiropractic. So pretty cool.
3:39
That is so funny, because that is totally generational switch, because back in the day, no one would have watched YouTube videos about chiropractic, chiropractic adjusting, and thought chiropractic was cool. It's so funny. I think us, us, the old people, who usually you had to hear it in the newspaper or something, because we didn't have the internet. Now, when we're in in practice, you know when practice members would come and say, I see these people getting these weird chiropractic videos. Like, at first we were mortified by it, but then afterwards, like, it kind of almost normalized chiropractic. And so it's kind of funny to hear the new generation of chiropractic can actually start from those crazy YouTube videos.
4:16
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
4:18
So tellme a little bit about your experience at Macquarie.
4:22
Um,so at Macquarie, it's a three year bachelor and then two years masters. So that's, yeah, five years of that uni was great. I always loved learning the black biomedical side of staff and anatomy. But yeah, there was a lot of great mentors that we had at uni, and there was a lot of research that was done at Macquarie, which was always really beneficial as well, well.
4:45
And I always, I'm always interested, because we always like it. When we initially started this podcast, we call it a vitality shift, because we're always talking about how chiropractors kind of went from more that mechanistic mindset of chiropractic to more to a vitalistic or understanding chiropractic can help more than just. Pain. How did you uncover the knowledge of chiropractic and as it was a kind of more pain based at first and then it moved over? Or would you did you learn that vitalistic ideas right away? Yeah,
5:09
we didn't really love vitalistic at all. That's definitely something that I've pretty much learned since I left uni, and having working with Ali as well has really helped with all of that. Okay,
5:20
so when you're in school, was it mostly just like, kind of pain basis, that was kind of like the focus of chiropractic, yeah,
5:27
that's so we never spoke about it much. It was kind of just like, well, this is how you kind of do diagnostic stuff, and this is how you adjust, and that was kind of all you got. I think a lot of people realize that uni, you don't get taught how to, you know, run a business or do scheduling or anything like that. I feel like that's something that most of us learn once we actually leave uni
5:53
well, and it's like it's just about every school, right? I think they just have enough time trying to cram your information into your head so you can write your board exams and get licensed, and then, and then you get thrown to the wolves. Yeah. So how did you come up on this job opportunity in Gladstone? Because this is where you went right after school, right like you went directly here. Yeah, yeah.
6:15
So Ally had previously put up that she wanted a locum, which was in my final year of uni. And I remember speaking of Ben Purcell, he in Bathurst, yes. And he was like, oh, yeah, she'd be great to work for. And I was like, Oh, such a shame. I'm like, in my last year, because I knew that she did a lot of work with pediatric patients, and that's kind of the road I wanted to go down. And then, yeah, it was like, early after I'd just gotten my registration, and she put up that she wanted an associate, so I just jumped on it, and I flew up and looked at the job, did a bit of a observation shift with her, and, yeah, it'll kind of happen from
7:03
there. And so did she before she did she work at the same time you did for a while before she went back to Perth? Or was yes,
7:13
she left the start of last year. So we together for a good two and a half years. Yeah,
7:19
so tell me a little bit about that, because you, you joined the practice in 2020 like, Was that right at, like, it was 2021
Oh, 2021 Oh, 2021
so COVID, COVID kind of happened. So, like, tell me a little bit about like, how is that?
7:32
Well, we were really lucky once I moved up here. I think it was two weeks later, um, they closed the borders because it was like, kind of that second wave. So I was really lucky. I got up here when I did, it was a bit rough because there was some planned trip home, but that you couldn't go home, you couldn't cross the border, it was kind of a big thing. But, you know, it wasn't too bad here, like can compared to people at home, we could live a normal life. Yeah, you had to wear masks to work, but otherwise, it was pretty novel, huge flavor. That's
8:01
when you talk about the benefit about being out, out in the least populated areas, because it's not quite as, like, kind of crazy as because it's funny. Because when we were talking to some of our friends back like Craig and Cath foot in Perth at the very beginning of the pandemic, we were like, Oh my gosh, we're moving to we're going to move to Australia, because it's so good there, because nothing had got there yet, and we were already shut down because, as the recording right now is, five years ago right now, we were shut down. It's crazy for like, eight, eight weeks or whatever, and then after we heard what happened in there, and we're like, oh, we're never moving there. That's crazy. It was just like, it was delayed. But our associate, Dr, Healy, she started, like, right in the pandemic too. So, like, it was, it was a little bit tough, because when you came in, because I think in your area, you guys are the only chiropractors, right? So in your
8:51
part of the chiro practice, where the only pediatric chiropractors, yeah,
8:54
okay. So, so when you first started practice, did you have to do anything externally to get out your name, out in the community, just to get kind of your practice going.
9:03
Yeah, I did a little bit, um, we, when I first started, I went to pregnancy expos, because obviously that's what we focus on a lot as well. And we do them every year. There's Allied Health things that we go expos, I guess that you go to. I did a few gym talks at the gym I was going to at the time? So yeah, that was all quite beneficial. But Ally's wait list, like she, I think she had a six week wait at the time for new patients. So I was pretty lucky that I started, I had people that I could see. And, yeah, it was pretty
9:36
good. So so tell me a little bit about that, because I know, like, Did you do any extra like training in pediatrics or anything while you're at chiropractic school? No,
9:44
not at not at uni, but before I came up and worked for Ali, I did just some little basic pediatric courses to get me through. And then in 2022, I started my two year diploma. Um. Of Corona peds, which I finished in 23 Oh, yeah, that's definitely that was pretty eye opening and really, really beneficial for practice as well. Yeah. So,
10:13
so how was your learning at the very beginning? Because I know especially well, and especially as for me as a male coming out of school where I'm like, you know, I'm in my like, 26 or 27 and not that great around kids. And didn't really learn I was I went to Palmer, and I still didn't go, get that much education around adjusting kids how, how was your learning curve like? Did you kind of get a little bit mentored by Ally, or did, how did that go?
10:41
She definitely mentored me through that. And she if I ever got stuck, she would come in and help, which was always really handy. Yeah, I guess I had a bit of sound knowledge before I started with her, which was really helpful. But, you know, once I was doing my diploma, if I needed help with that, she was always there for that. So, yeah, that, course, was amazing, yeah, super
11:04
helpful, yeah, when you first started with Ally at the practice, because she had so many kids that were in there and probably had some, yeah, because in Australia, it's a little bit like Canada, where we're highly regulated, and we're not allowed to really say that we help with colic or digestive issues, even those sometimes miraculous, go away when they aren't as subluxated. But, like, how is that for learning curve for you, with, with, with, not really, like, just knowing chiropractic through, like, adjusting videos and then just through school. Like, what was, was it kind of eye opening? Was it for you?
11:38
Yeah, I guess it really wasn't compared to, you know, adjusting an adult, you see changes really, really quickly with a baby. So that was very eye opening. And I guess that's what drove me to then go and do the extra pediatric training, was because I was like, Okay, this is really what I want to do now. And you, I don't know, you just feel so great knowing that you've helped a little baby, and that you've, you know, with adults, you're often cleaning up the mess of what's happened over the years, whereas if you can help a little baby, um, a lot, like, you know, early days, then you know, you're creating a great change in their trajectory of life. I guess you could say that,
12:19
yeah, that is, it is cool, and it's, it's funny, because it's actually, I'm thankful that Brandi worked at the front for because she loves babies, and so she almost forced me to see more babies. And then over the 20 years, I got way more comfortable with that. But it was funny, I wouldn't have been as comfortable if it was just me by myself, that's for sure.
Yeah, it was definitely at the like start, I was like, Oh, I'm gonna break them or I couldn't stand hearing them cry. But now you're just like, Oh, it's fine, like, it's just another noise. I
remember, I think, one of my very first crazy, colicky babies. After that first visit, I was sweating so much just because the baby was crying, like it started crying as very beginning. And the cool thing was, on the set, by the set, by the second visit, the baby already wasn't crying, like it was that fast that turned around. But I just remember, I'm like, I felt for the bad for the mom, because I'm like, you put up with this? Like, 24/7 like his rate, and he's, he's like, screaming like this all the time. I would lose my mind. Yeah, poor moms or moms, but thank goodness for chiropractic. So let's get now when Ali decided to head back to Perth and and then you took over the whole show. Tell me a little bit about having, like, kind of a sudden surge in volume, and what, how was that for you? And how did you deal with that? Yeah,
13:35
so the first few weeks it was, it was great, but it was also very, very exhausting. I was working, obviously a lot more hours. I was seeing a lot more people. I started going out to a little town that's like an hour and a half away from here, called Billa Wheeler. So I go out there once a month now. And so I agreed to that before Allie decided she was leaving. And I was like, Well, I can't go back on it now, just do all of it. It was quite exhausting at first, and I think too, when I met you guys in during last year at the polyvagal seminar, it was I think I had been dealing with practice quite well, and I felt like I was growing a lot more without, you know, just being the sole chiropractor in the practice. But then I realized that I was burning out a little bit. And I didn't realize that until, you know, Brandy started talking about all the polyvagal stuff. And I was like, oh, that's me.
14:39
Well, and that's, that's the nice thing about getting to know this early on, because it's, it's just like I would say, when people always come in and they'll say, Well, how, how bad is it? Doctor? How bad am I? And I'm like, Well, the best way to describe it is, you're driving down the road and you're starting to head to the ditch, yeah. So the quicker we can re correct before you get closer to that ditch, the better it's going. Be so it's kind of nice to be able to kind of be aware of that before you fully do burn out. Yeah, that's and that, that's pretty cool. Which? Which? That brings me to the next thing. Is it, you know, you came to the the adjusting seminar and then the polyvagal team event, and I was just curious, because I always like to see how chiropractors are taking some of the principles of the polyvagal theory to both just their life and in their adjusting and just curious. What are some of the things that you've found that were useful for practice or like for you? Well, I feel
15:28
like when I went like I went home from that weekend, and I felt like I had taken a lot to be able to actually change my life, but also introduce a lot in practice as well. So I remember, like that first day, and Brandi was sitting there, and she was not sitting there. She was standing in front of all of us, and she was saying, I'll be able to pick you out by talking to you guys today. Who is, you know that dorsal vagal. And I was sitting there going, Oh, it won't be me, but I'm interested to see, like, who it is. But then, as soon as she started talking about everything, I was like, oh, okay, this is me. And then I got adjusted by you, and I just I'd never, like, I've been adjusted 1000s of times and never felt that regulated, I guess, after an adjustment. And I remember walking out to go to lunch, and Kelly was like, Oh, were you a bit upset when they said that, you know, you would, you know, fit dorsal vagal. And I was like, No, I think I'd accepted it because, you know, it's Brandi. Had spoken about it, and I realized that that was probably me, sorry. Yeah,
16:41
That's awesome. That's so cool. And just far as like, adjusting goes, have you like, did you kind of, like, tweak anything or or use any of those principles, just for, like, when you're kind of, like, we always say one of the key principles in there is being a really strong co regulator, and especially if you're dealing with a lot of kids helping them the mother help her understand the importance of her being a co regulator, and you being a good co regulator when you're adjusting so
17:06
on. Yeah, often, if mom isn't already getting adjusted, I encourage her to get adjusted as well. But big key takeaways that I use all the time now is like the zigzag pattern with the first rib. That's that was a huge game changer. And a lot of the polyvagal abdominal work as well, I find is really beneficial. So there are a lot of the things, oh, and the ox support too, like, that was a game changer. The app to use that as well. Yeah,
17:35
it's funny. I just had a Prax number in just, it was, I think it was just yesterday. And so I just had done some visceral work on them, and they were, like, when they got up there, like, and there have been a regular patient, but I could just tell that there was something wrong, like, because just seeing it in the face, like, like Randy was saying when she saw you, she could tell just from your face that you're a little bit into that dorsal and so sometimes when you have people who've been under care for a while, and you know, you know them, and they Well, and you can just tell that something's off. So I just didn't even say anything. I just did the stomach stuff. And then they're like, Well wait, what are you doing that for today? And I said, I just think, I always say, this is for your soul, the I think you just need a little bit of an adjustment for your soul. And then they get up after and they're like, I didn't even think I had tension through my like home, through their whole viscera. And they said, but now that it's gone, it totally feels way better. But I didn't even know it was that bad. So some of those things are pretty cool. Just to add on to the adjustment, I would say, just to amplify that regulatory effect, right? So you feel a little bit more, yeah, definitely, little bit more chill. So I always like to ask this question, if you were to talk to your younger self when you first came out, because you've had five years of kind of like baptism by fire, because you kind of came right out into a busy practice. Because some people, if they go to some place, you know, that has, like a lot of other chiropractors, it's a really stump, it's a slow grind to kind of get your practice going. But if you were to be able to go back and talk to your younger self, what kind of words of wisdom would you give yourself, even though it's only been five years?
19:01
I did be being a lot more confident in what you know. Because I think that's a big thing for most people when they come out, is you're kind of thrown in the deep end, and you've just got to be confident with what you know. And yeah, I guess Believe in yourself as well. I think a big thing for me is I often get a bit of imposter syndrome, but then you've just always got to look back and go, actually, I absolutely know all of this, and I'm doing just fine. Yeah, yeah.
19:30
It's funny because people don't give themselves enough credit. Actually, it's a really it's quite funny, because when we first came out with the vitality shift program, with all the objective testing, we had some chiropractors we worked with who thought that they weren't that good of a chiropractor, but they weren't actually doing the objective testing. And then when they when they started doing the objective testing on the revaluations, they're like, holy smokes, I'm actually a pretty good chiropractor. Yeah, it's just that, if you aren't paying attention to all the little nuances of improvements, you can go. You can miss it, and actually the practice member goes on missing it as well, right? Because if you, if you don't bring light to it or measure it, it's hard to be kind of cognitively aware of it, right? Yeah, yeah. So, so that's pretty cool. Now I'm kind of interested in what your self care routines been now that you kind of took over the practice full blast, you're getting pulled or you have to, you know, drive away and do your side side clinic, plus being super busy with life and everything else, with your dog and all that kind of stuff. And what kind of things are you doing on a regular basis to keep you a good, cool regulator for your practice members?
20:39
Yeah, so that's probably what I did struggle with the most. When I became the only chiropractor in practice, I stopped kind of going to the gym because I felt like I had no time. So after the polyvagal seminar, I actually changed my hours to make sure that I could get all that in. And it's made me feel a lot better. But, I do I Pilates. I take my dog Jeff for his walks, and I try and get I'm a bit slack with it from time to time, but I try and get breath work in, because I often know that that will bring me into it more of a calm state if I am a bit dysregulated as well.
21:24
Now, coming to the end of our podcast, I always like to one of my closing questions is a little bit of, what kind of words of inspiration would you like to leave chiropractors with? Oh, gosh, and if that's hard, because, especially if someone's younger in practice, or what kind of things are inspiring to you, because often that spreads the message.
21:42
I mean, what's been inspiring for me is having always, kind of having a mentor. So having Ali, the last few years when I was going through uni, Ben personal was always there. And he, the first time I ever met him, I remember him saying we were just talking, and he's like, Oh, do you have a problem with your jaw? And I was like, Yeah, I do. And I was like, I want to be like that when I finish uni that I can look at someone and realize that there's something wrong. So I guess, yeah, following what feels right, because you've gotta have you like, and not that you have to have a niche, but I've I've found that being really beneficial for me is knowing that I have done a lot of study in a certain area, and I can absolutely thrive in that area. But I guess just watching your patients grow as well and change is probably the most exciting part of practice as well.
22:45
Yes, I think so too. It's, it's, I'm starting to feel old because I get now I have the kids that came in, the little kids, and then they start driving themselves in. Like, that's, I'm like, I'm like, how did you get here today? They're like, I drove I'm like, what you're old enough to do that exactly like when I first saw you. You're like, a baby. You're like, you're like, three months old or two months old. So yeah, it's and the longer your practice, you'll, you'll, you'll be able to see those, those things too, because people will be under care for longer and longer. So yeah, it's pretty it's pretty inspiring. But thank you for sharing your story. I always like to get that perspective of like the four year old chiropractor. And I also look very much forward to seeing you in June. You're registered for coming to level two in in Sydney, so we'll be super excited to dig in on that as well. So thanks very much for being on the podcast. Yeah, that's all thanks for having me. So everybody. Hope you guys are having a wonderful day. Got some good insights from from I always call them the young whipper snappers in practice, which are always inspiring to us older, older folks. And let's talk again in a couple weeks. Have a good one. And that brings us to the end of another episode of the informed chiropractor. I want to thank you for joining us today and being an important part of this community dedicated to advancing chiropractic care through the insights of neurology and the polyvagal theory. As we close today's episode, remember that each one of us has the power to make a significant impact on the health and well being of our practice members. It's through our continuous learning, application and sharing of knowledge that we can truly elevate the practice the chiropractic and enhance the lives of those that we serve before we part ways. I encourage you to connect with us online, visit our website and follow us on social media to stay updated. Our website is www, dot theinform chiropractor.com, and if you found value in today's episode, please share it with a colleague or a friend who might benefit as well. Your support helps us reach and inspire more chiropractors to make a greater impact on their communities. It's been a pleasure to be with you today on the informed chiropractor and until next time Dr Don out you.
